Jeremy blogged about the Yahoo! Messenger announcement and he complained that Ryan Naraine over at eWEEK miscategorized Yahoo Messenger as having VoIP capabilities when Yahoo Messenger can merely do PC-to-PC calling. He preferred the term VoIM (voice over instant message) instead of VoIP. While Yahoo Messenger technically is doing voice over IP (VoIP) packetization it is limted to buddy-to-buddy calling (doesn't do PSTN calling) and that's what stuck in Jeremy's craw. I have to admit, I thought the same thing when reading the Yahoo Messenger news this morning. All the "important" VoIP news these days is about broadband VoIP and Skype - both of which can dial the PSTN. If you can't reach the PSTN using VoIP then you are an "also ran". Many "novice" VoIP fans will assume when they read that Yahoo Messenger has VoIP that it can do the same thing a Vonage or a Skype can. They would be wrong. The new Yahoo Messenger does do PC-to-PC calling and its full-duplex (prior version was not I believe)- BIG WHOOP!. I actually had intented to blog similar thoughts to Jeremy's this morning. Ah well, 11:45pm is better than never, right?
Here's a teaser of his rant on Yahoo Messenger having VoIP. Make sure to go check out the full article.
In Yahoo's 'Voice Over IM' Targets Skype Ryan Naraine starts his article by saying:
The Yahoo Messenger makeover puts the Sunnyvale, Calif.-based Web portal up against startups Skype Technologies S.A. and Teleo Inc., two companies that have found success by offering IM and voice connection services from a downloadable application.
Which seems to reaffirm the headline. But then comes the deal breaker for nearly every Skype user I know.
While Skype and Teleo provide users with the ability to make and receive calls from and to traditional telephone lines, Yahoo Inc's will be limited to PC-to-PC calling to contacts on the messenger buddy list.
(Emphasis mine.)
Let me make the point in a different way. This is Voice Over IM (VOIM), a subset of what the real Voice Over IP (VOIP) market is and a subset of what Skype offers.
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You're the specialist so correct me if i'm wrong but I will reply here what I replied over there:
"Yahoo Inc's will be limited to PC-to-PC calling to contacts on the messenger buddy list."
Well pardon me if i'm wrong but this sentence IS wrong from what I'm observing
so why is it I can place a Net2Phone call from the Actions drop down menu?...I mean isn't that VoIP?
Link 1 :
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/messenger/win/beta/voip/voip-03.html
Maybe the rates are far from competiting with Skype (I sincerely dunno I have never used Skype) but it seems to be the same tool:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/messenger/win/beta/voip/voip-03.html
Did I miss something here?
In June, 2004, before the SkypeOut beta was released, Skype had 12M downloads and a claimed 4M regular users. And a respected VoIP News Journalist wrote, "I do know the main reason why Skype grew so quickly was that it allows 'free calling' to anyone in your Skype buddy list, with an easy to use interface and with excellent voice quality."
Nice find Guillaume. It does appear Yahoo! Messenger does do PC-to-PSTN calling. But shame on Yahoo! for such a confusing press release that did NOT promote the fact that they do support PC-to-PSTN calling via a third-party VoIP service provider - namely Net2Phone.
I actually tried to confirm whether or not Yahoo! Messenger 7.0 supported PC-to-PSTN calling by going to their beta site and checking out their features. EVEN THEN I COULD NOT FIND PC-TO-PSTN calling listed in the feature-set. Inexcusable!
Check out the pages in the order I surfed:
http://messenger.yahoo.com/
I then clicked "See the Features" at the top which brought me here:
http://messenger.yahoo.com/features.php;_ylt=AvqPlnnnZM7pFqaNU1WkHftwMMIF
Yahoo lists "Entertainment, Productivity, Personalization, and Communication" as major option headings. Under Communication, the closest thing to VoIP was "Voice Chat" with a description reading "Talk with others using your speakers and microphone.
So I clicked on "Voice Chat".
And lo and behold, do we see PC-to-PSTN calling listed? Nope! It only talks about PC-to-PC, buddy-to-buddy voice chat.
How can Yahoo screw this up so badly? If they have PC-to-PSTN calling that's major news. Why they didn't properly promote this fact is beyond me.
Even their own press release from yesterday doesn't list PC-to-PSTN:
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20050518005298&newsLang=en
Read a snippet here, it says:
"-- Free Worldwide Calling and Voicemail(1): Yahoo! Messenger has enhanced its already popular voice service to allow consumers to far more easily call anywhere in the world for free through high-quality, PC-to-PC calling. Making calls over the Internet gives people more to talk about by being able to connect with friends and family while viewing photos, playing games, searching the Web and so much more. People just need an Internet connection and a headset or a microphone and speakers."
To have to find this feature via Yahoo Messenger's Help screen like you did is beyond ludicrious!
My only theory on this is that maybe because Yahoo! itself isn't offering the PC-to-PSTN dialing/termination (Net2Phone) is, they didn't promote this fact? After all, Windows/MSN Messenger also has the ability to make PC-to-PSTN calls using third-party VoIP providers and nobody crows about Microsoft having PC-to-PSTN abilities.
Actually, I just checked my MSN Messenger and it looks like Microsoft removed the menu option "Start a Phone Conversation". Huh... Wonder when they did that - I didn't even notice. I guess nobody was using it.
Who ever said VoIP meant PSTN interconnect? VoIP simply means VOICE OVER INTERNET PROTOCOL, which is exactly what these companies do.. While having PSTN interconnect is a nice feature, the reality is that eventually PSTN is going to go away (most of my friends have cell phones and not landlines now, which of course, are on the PSTN network, but are one step away from being a wireless IP only device).. I think one day we're all going to wake up, and realize we live in an internet-only communcations world.
Duane is correct, VOIP isn't defined solely as PC-2-PSTN. What's more useful to me? PC-2-PC calling in 'digital' quality vs. landline quality. Yahoo! Messenger has HAD VOIP capabilities, thx to Net2Phone for YEARS now. You'll need a Yahoo! calling card to use it though. Yahoo!'s got their own SIP/STUN (Simple Traversal of UDP over Nat) servers and if I remember right are using SIP 2.0. They've also got their own voice mail servers now where a voice mail msg can be recorded and stored on their vmwebservers (with a max duration of 2 mins / voice mail msg sent from each ID). I also would like to point out that PC-2-PC calling is NOT just limited to buddies only but to ANY ID on Yahoo! that supports the feature (uses 7.0 beta +). This can be accessed through the 'Actions - Call Computer' - "Other Contact" tab.
>>Who ever said VoIP meant PSTN interconnect? VoIP simply means VOICE OVER INTERNET PROTOCOL
>>>Duane is correct, VOIP isn't defined solely as PC-2-PSTN
I never said VoIP is strictly PC-to-PSTN. In afact, I said Yahoo! was technically using VoIP here: "While Yahoo Messenger technically is doing voice over IP (VoIP) packetization it is limted to buddy-to-buddy calling (doesn't do PSTN calling)".
I merely put Yahoo's claim of VoIP in perspective comparing against say a Skype or a broadband provider such as Vonage.
>>What's more useful to me? PC-2-PC calling in 'digital' quality vs. landline quality
Well, what may be more useful to you is not more useful to the mainstream consumer. Even with millions of Skype users, compared to PSTN users Skype users are a drop in the bucket. I'm a huge proponent of VoIP, but PSTN (as much as we hate it) is still going to be around for awhile. Yes, eventually everything with be IP-to-IP, but it's more important to talk about the business case for VOIP today and not tomorrow.
Today, PC/ATA-to-PSTN is a very important AND NECESSARY feature until we migrate towards a 100% IP communication world. Conversely, PC-to-PC or IP-to-IP calling is still for geeks, techies, tee-nagers, and a few other demographics. Anyone who thinks everyone uses IP-to-IP calling is kidding themselves.
So, the main point of my two blog entries regarding Yahoo was that Yahoo should have promoted their PC-to-PSTN feature just as much if not more so than their PC-to-PC calling. Skype's IP-to-IP calling may have the hype, but at the end of the day, people are going to want the ability to make and receive calls to the vast majority of their contacts - which you may not want to hear this, but they're still on the PSTN.
i am the new user for net2phone so i want to open my account
I'm using Yahoo! Messenger's Pc to PC calls..I guess it's more secured compared to Skype. Well, that's my opinion. Im both a Skype and Yahoo Messenger user.
My fiancee is in the Philippines. For me, Yahoo! has been a life link for us and without it, I am not sure where we would be. I throw some money on the yahoo PC out account and I am able to call her directly on her cell phone from my PC. When she traveled to her province in Northern Luzon, there are no net cafes, Yahoo enabled us to talk to each other everyday. I would not care if it was .50 a minute, it is worth every penny considering the rest of the time we can see each other on the webcam and use voice. We can share pictures, (lets see Skype do that!!!). As a Systems analyst for a government agency; I can tell you that I work with all kinds of software programs and all types of devices. Yahoo is like the unsung hero of the computer age. If you think about the number of marriages and happy couples Yahoo has made possible, well the technical stuff just doesn't matter. It works.
My fiancee is in the Philippines. For me, Yahoo! has been a life link for us and without it, I am not sure where we would be. I throw some money on the yahoo PC out account and I am able to call her directly on her cell phone from my PC. When she traveled to her province in Northern Luzon, there are no net cafes, Yahoo! enabled us to talk to each other everyday. I would not care if it was .50 a minute, it is worth every penny considering the rest of the time we can see each other on the webcam and use voice. We can share pictures, (lets see Skype do that!!!). As a Systems analyst for a government agency; I can tell you that I work with all kinds of software programs and all types of devices. Yahoo is like the unsung hero of the computer age. If you think about the number of marriages and happy couples Yahoo has made possible, well the technical stuff just doesn't matter. It works