Global IP Sound killer?

January 16, 2006

Rich Tehrani has a very interesting inteview with Andrew Sviridenko of Spirit DSP, where Andrew positions Spirit DSP as a more robust solution than Global IP Sound (GIPS) due to Spirit DSP's better multipoint conferencing support and scalability. The GIPS codec/voice engine is used in Skype, Google Talk, Yahoo! Messenger, and a few other VoIP softphones. Interestingly, Andrew mentions speaking with Microsoft, so if Spirit DSP were to be embedded in a future release of Windows Live Messenger, that would be a huge win for Spirit DSP.

And speaking of Windows Live Messenger, Microsoft's bloggers have been covering the beta of this software and "leaking" some of the really cool features in Windows Live Messenger, including a really neat feature that lets you share your music playlist over the Internet. In fact, one of the Microsoft bloggers, Leah, has an interesting birthday wish:

"For my birthday, I wanted a way to play music on my computer and then invite my buddies to listen with me on his/her computer.

How awesome would it be if both of us in a conversation could share one playlist, to which we could add or remove tracks, skip to the next song, or reshuffle? It’d be like we are at the same dance party, except we could actually dance because no one would be there to make fun of
us!...Unless we add webcam of course "

Leah goes on to list what she did get for her birthday, including flowers, a red-hooded sweatshirt, and last, but not least - Music Mix in Messenger. Cool! cool

Of couse you need the Windows Live Beta (invite only) to try it. Speaking of which, I've been meaning to request a beta invite.

Anyway, she also details the feature-list for the streaming music playlist sharing, the most important of which states, "Remember - you’re sharing a play list. If you fastforward, skip, or stop a song, your buddy will hear the same thing you do." Hmmm, only 2 party peer-to-peer music sharing? This got me thinking. If Spirit DSP is great at multipoint VoIP conferencing, their technology could also be used for multipoint P2P music sharing. Of course once the RIAA gets wind of this feature they'll probably sue teenagers for sharing/streaming their favorite music to multiple members in their buddy list. angry

Check out this excerpt from the interview Rich had with Spirit DSP:

Global IP Sound or GIPS is their only competitor as of today and others will emerge according to Andrew... "Possibly Microsoft," he says. They are speaking with Microsoft about using Spirit's technology. According to Andrew, Global IP sound positioned themselves as a company developing a voice engine and he feels that GIPS is focused on softphone vendors and voice over IM vendors.

"Their deployment with Skype made GIPS popular," he says. He doesn't think GIPS has a strong future as they don't have the resources to move into voice in a full-blown way. He continues saying that Spirit has been preparing for the past few years knowing that multipoint conferencing is the future. They see that global players are moving in this direction as well.

Wow, the bold part above hit me like a ton of bricks since I've been a huge fan of GIPS since I did the first exclusive review of GIPS on a PocketPC back in 2003. Definitely worth checking out Rich's full article.

Comments to Global IP Sound killer?

Rick :
January 16, 2006 10:14 AM

Spirit's known as a "sore loser" to Gips and has trash-talked them in the press and in their sales literature. 95% of their claims about their competitor are blatant lies. Fact is, Spirit got caught with their pants down when voip became popular. Now their resorting to lesser than ethical practices in an attempt to regain face. Problem is they are losing face big time with their punitive comments and claims.

Valentina :
January 16, 2006 11:17 AM

SPIRIT NEVER told dirty things about GIPS. Rick Hultz (previous comment) is an investor of GIPS. Please let’s play the business game with dignity, don’t bring the reputation of the Global IP Sound down.

Andrew :
January 16, 2006 11:30 AM

For clarity, Rick Hultz (previous comment) is simply working for GIPS PR, he is always very incorrect about SPIRIT,
- SPIRIT is aware GIPS sales people tell this shit to clients as well,
- This seems to be the way GIPS competes against SPIRIT,
- SPIRIT has been in global software biz for 12 years, and in voice biz for 10 years, SPIRIT has over 200 global voice customers and SPIRIT outperforms GIPS by any business parameter (revenue, number of people, profit margin, cost structure, etc). Most of GIPS clients are P2P soft-phone vendors. SPIRIT has solid enterprise software customers like Oracle, Macromedia, PalTalk, HP Open Talk, etc and dozens of telecom and mobile OEMs like Frextronics, Ericsson, Kyocera, HTC, Siemens, Panasonic, etc.

Rick :
January 16, 2006 2:41 PM

Peace! I'm out of this. I don't get paid for this. I'll shut up and let the engineers fight this one out.

God Bless and my apologies for my big mouth.

Rick

splib :
January 17, 2006 12:20 AM

i'm no teenager, but i'll be sure to inform the RIAA if i hear any background muzak while on the phone.

Nils :
January 17, 2006 3:11 PM

You have to be able to accept that Rick knows what he is talking about regardless of him that being an investor in GIPS. The claim that he is paid to promote GIPS is so ridiculous that it's not even worth a comment. The reality is that even though Spirit is an established player in this market they keep loosing deals to GIPS. GIPS mgt is professional enough to ignore the adolescent tactics of Spirit. Among recent wins within the collaborative conf. market are marquee names such as Nortel, Centra and Webex.

Macromedia (Adobe) chose Spirit for their VOIP component in the Breeze solution, which is anything than impressive. Even the Macromedia reps suggest using a phone bridge (Premier Conferencing) when conducting meetings.

Nils :
January 17, 2006 3:55 PM

Tom Keating, you must be confused or extremely misinformed, if anything GIPS is “Spirit’s killer”. GIPS has won numerous deals over Spirit the last year or so. Spirit is the established player, but GIPS products are preferred by the industry, what does that tell you? You are supposed to be a VOIP expert, I strongly suggest you research GIPS recent wins against Spirit and compare their products before you create such a ridiculous assumption. It is true that Macromedia (Adobe) chose Spirit over GIPS for their Breeze solution (price), but the sound quality is so poor that even the sales reps use Premier conferencing when conducting meetings and presentations. I would be surprised if Adobe don’t initiate testing with GIPS soon. The fact that GIPS and Macromedia will be conducting a session together called “Adding VoIP to Web Conferencing & Collaboration” at the IP conference and expo next week could be a sign of things to come. I suggest you spend some time comparing the voice-quality in Nortel’s MCS 5200 or Marratech’s collaborative solution with the Breeze solution before you venture further into a discussion about which company that has the greatest sustainability in this industry. Why do you think other web collaborative solutions like Webex and Centra went with GIPS?

For your information, my background is within the financial industry and I’m by no means a VOIP expert, it is however extremely discouraging that people like you claim to be. We have to expect more, luckily there are other sites where the contributors have knowledge, credibility and integrity (and common sense).

JF :
January 17, 2006 4:14 PM

I usually stay out of internet arguments, but Nils, you are way out of line here. Did you even read Tom's post? Where in the world does he claim the things you say? If anything, Tom claims to be a huge fan of GIPS.

"For your information, my background is within the financial industry and I’m by no means a VOIP expert, it is however extremely discouraging that people like you claim to be. We have to expect more, luckily there are other sites where the contributors have knowledge, credibility and integrity (and common sense)."

Where in this post does Tom claim one is better than the other? Integrity and credibility? Are you kidding me? Again, please point out where in Tom's post his credibility and integrity should be questioned. Why do I have the feeling you are an investor in GIPS?

If you are going to make statements like this please back them up. I have been reading this blog for almost two years and I have come across nothing that would suggest Tom is not a credible, and legitimate source of information. In fact many other bloggers that cover this space consistantly post excepts from this blog. As far as intergrity is concerned, I have yet to read anything that would leave me to believe he lacks it.

Tom Keating :
January 17, 2006 4:19 PM

Nils,
I think you must have misread my blog post. I titled my blog post with a "?" mark, indicating my "surprise" at Spirit DSP's strong claims to be a better solution than GIPS within Rich Tehrani's interview. So the "Global IP Sound Killer?" was simply a pondering on my part not a statement.

In fact, I even expressed my surprise later in the article when I wrote, "Wow, the bold part above hit me like a ton of bricks since I've been a huge fan of GIPS since I did the first exclusive review of GIPS on a PocketPC back in 2003."

This blog entry was by no means a slight against GIPS and I certainly wasn't stating Spirit DSP is better than GIPS. It may or may not be, I have no idea since I haven't tested their latest stuff. Rather this post was simply my reporting on an interesting interview Rich had. You can take the interview that Rich has with Spirit DSP with a grain of salt if you wish, but my job is to report the news.

Maybe I'll invite both Spirit DSP and GIPS to TMC Labs and I'll do a VoIP codec/voice-engine "bakeoff" between these two competitors! Then we'll put this debate who has the best quality to rest.

Slava :
January 17, 2006 4:43 PM

Nils, it is clear that you are working for GIPS as well as Rick. GIPS is trying hard to inflate its stock now, so it is clear why you guys are so nervous now.

Webex was long been claimed GIPS customer, but Webex mainstream conferencing product uses standard phone, there is NO GIPS in Webex web conferencing product. Check it out yourself.

Microsoft has been claimed by GIPS as customer, but Microsoft RTC management said Microsoft is NOT using any GIPS product in any Microsoft product. Check it out yourself.

Logitech has been claimed as GIPS customer, but Logitech management said Logitech is NOT using any GIPS product in any Logitech product. Check it out yourself.

There is simply a lot of hype about GIPS only because of Skype success.

SPIRIT has been on the market twice longer than GIPS, SPIRIT has 4 times more professional employees in comparison with GIPS, SPIRIT has 4 times more clients in comparison with GIPS.

SPIRIT outperformes GIPS by any biz parameter, including real voice product deployments, revenue and profit margin.

As for Macromedia, only because of Flash huge installed base (600 million users), as of today Flash does not yet fully use SPIRIT product, but will do that soon.

Oracle is another win of SPIRIT against GIPS, while SPIRIT product is more expensive than GIPS product.

HTC (the biggest Asia 3G OEM) is another win of SPIRIT against GIPS, while SPIRIT product is more expensive than GIPS product.

HP is another win of SPIRIT against GIPS. PalTalk is another win of SPIRIT against GIPS. The list goes on and on. SPIRIT has over 200 global customers in 70 countries.

I would not be surprised if Skype and other GIPS clients will start testing SPIRIT voice very soon.

SPIRIT is sure that SPIRIT voice product is better in multi-point headset-free voice conferencing environment, and we are ready to participate in independent voice quality testing against GIPS.

Nils :
January 17, 2006 4:48 PM

Tom,

I had a problem with your title "Global IP Sound Killer?" I realize there is a question mark in the title and I understand that you don't make any claims, still I have come to expect more from you than publishing such a "tabloid looking" heading.

After all, in the interview Spirit claims to be better positioned than GIPS, they never claim to be a "Global IP Sound Killer?"; that statement/heading is your creation.

I apologize since I acknowledge that my critique was a little excessive. I know your job is to report the news, but by being too creative in your effort to make "catchy" headlines you run the risk of having people assume your headline is a reflection of how you perceive or summarize the article/interview.

Nils :
January 17, 2006 5:06 PM

Slava,

It is obvious that you are paranoid. I have no idea who Rick is and I can assure you that I don't work for GIPS. However, I have no problems telling you GIPS has been included in my portfolio for the last 2 years and that it has been one of my better investments. Your agenda on the other hand is quite clear.

"SPIRIT is sure that SPIRIT voice product is better in multi-point headset-free voice conferencing environment, and we are ready to participate in independent voice quality testing against GIPS."

I actually find it pathetic that people working for Spirit is spending time discussing and pushing their products this way. I really feel sorry for low-level people like yourself who are given the task of spamming VOIP forum's.

I wish you luck in your efforts and your career (or lack theroff) in general.

Slava :
January 17, 2006 5:59 PM

Nils,

Recently I read the citing of WSJ http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=721
testing MSN and Yahoo! messenger (first is claimed and second is using GIPS, right?), saying "The verdict? Passable at best."
do you want one to take this as quality criteria as you are offering for Breeze/SPIRIT?

and Nils, you are becoming sharp in the language and atittude which i do not think you can do with me, please.

overall, not sure why there is so much "flavor" in GIPS-side saying "sore loser", "adolescent tactics" on SPIRIT - what is the real basis for such approach to be used even in professional forum - is everything alright with GIPS?

Rick :
January 17, 2006 6:41 PM

Tom, I have to agree with Nils. You could have used better journalism. Your title is what pissed me off.

Jon Alexander :
January 17, 2006 8:44 PM

Guys, you need to chill. Using the term "killer" is used as a headline by most respected journalists and news outlets. Try googling "razr killer" or "treo killer" or insert any other popular technology followed by killer. It's a common headline used by many journalists. It's not "tabloid" journalist.

In fact, many of these Google search results don't even have a question mark at the end, so they are making a STATEMENT that Product XYZ is a "killer" of Product ABC. I've seen more "killer treo" or "killer blackberry" articles than I care to count, yet I've not seen a single product better than the Blackberry and very few phones as good as the Treo 650 (or 700).

I thought Tom did a good job of reporting about the interview and expressing his "shock" about Spirit DSPs claims about GIPS. Tom didn't say he supported one company or the other. He was bringing the interview to his vast audience's attention.

Obviously, some strong proponents on both sides are zealous supporters of each respective VoIP company, but there's no need to question Tom's blog post or his journalism. If you want to question something, question the "claims" made by Spirit DSP. As the saying goes, don't shoot the messenger. You should be shooting at the originator of the message about GIPS.

Tom, I have to hand it to you for keeping these comments and not censoring them or deleting them. You're a big man than I. Still, you may want to consider closing comments on this post, it appears to be getting out of hand.

Nils :
January 17, 2006 10:14 PM

Slava,

"and Nils, you are becoming sharp in the language and atittude which i do not think you can do with me, please."

It is obvious that you find the English language challenging. I understand you are only a low-level sales rep, but as long as you are pitching your products in English, I suggest you get a spell-check installed on your computer. This will prevent you from looking like a complete amateur and improve the way you present Spirit.

In regards to GIPS performance, I suggest you contact the company for information. As opposed to Spirit, GIPS is a highly professional organization and they would never let their employees spam industry forums. I tried to explain to you that my interest in GIPS is purely financial, but it is apparent that you have a hard time comprehending that. As far as performance is concerned, the stock has almost given me a 1000% return since my initial investment so I am quite satisfied. That should also give you an indication about how the company is doing.

Unfortunately, I have more important things to attend to than chatting with a Spirit employee and have to end this “discussion”. (In addition, Jon Alexander is afraid this post is “getting out of hand” and feels these comments should be censored....)

Slava, I really pity the job you have, so you have all my sympathy.

Rick :
January 18, 2006 10:13 AM

Jon, you are correct in that every example you mentioned is a product, not a company.

Screw this BS. I believe the journalists got what they wanted.

High profile BS with no commentary of their own.

Rick :
January 18, 2006 10:17 AM

It was simply a platform for their paying advertiser and a plug for their upcoming conference. I see through this BS, especially Rich's sales techniques. Tom was probably following directions from the Boss.

Jon Alexander :
January 18, 2006 10:48 AM

My oh my, Rick. Have you gone off the deep end?
"Jon, you are correct in that every example you mentioned is a product, not a company."

Most people know the name "Global IP Sound" and not the product name for GIPS (VoiceEngine). Would a title "VoiceEngine Killer?" have been better? C'mon, most people don't know GIPS's product names. Besides, you can just as easily Google company names and come up with millions of hits. Try Googling "microsoft killer" or "yahoo killer" or "google killer". So your counter argument seems petty to me.

"High profile BS with no commentary of their own."

High profile? Sorry to burst your bubble, but GIPS ain't all that in the VoIP world. There are bigger fish in the VoIP sea. Besides, since when do journalists have to comment on every single news story? Yes a blog is an opinion piece, but blogs are also news sources. I don't expect Tom or Rich to have to comment on every single blog post they do. Many times the news speaks for itself and doesn't require a journalist's opinion.

I honestly don't know where this hostility is coming from. So you own some GIPS stock and Tom pointed to an interview that was "glowing" towards GIPS's competitor. So what! If GIPS is good then no one reporter can bring down the stock price.

>>Tom was probably following directions from the Boss.
Wow, that's quite an accusation there. Are you questioning Tom's integrity? Like JF said above, I too have been reading Tom's blog and it has been nothing but objective. I'm a huge fan of this blog and hate it when people tear down other people because of their own personal agenda (or personal stock portfolio). Not cool... Not cool at all.

If GIPS's stock went down 50% as the result of this blog post then I can see some hostility even if it is misplaced. News is news my friend. Sometimes bad news will happen.

Tom, if/when you read this, I think you should just close this thread. Personally, I'm tired of these personal attacks against you. It reminds me of the Democrats smear attacks against Judge Alito, especially Ted Kennedy, which really sickens me. Do people have no decency when it comes to the Internet? Do they think that because it's anonymous they can just make personal attacks with no one to answer to?

Tom Keating :
January 18, 2006 11:15 AM

Rick,
I'm surprised by your attack on me and Rich. I know we've interactive via email in the past and exchanged some thoughts on the VoIP industy.

You wrote above: "It was simply a platform for their paying advertiser and a plug for their upcoming conference."

Again, I don't know where this is coming from. Honestly, I don't feel I need to defend myself, but I will just say that there are hundreds of companies that I cover that have never spent a dime with TMC. I don't base my VoIP coverage on advertisers with my organization and I resent the assusation.

If you can show me any correlation between what I write about and money spent with TMC I will resign from TMC and stop blogging. My honor and integrity is worth much more than that.

Finally, I should point out that GIPS has spent money with TMC and is also currently a prospect for our sales team. So if anything, if I wanted to make sure TMC kept GIPS as a 'happy' sales prospect, I would never say anything bad about them since that could hurt advertising/exhibiting prospects. Obviously, I don't do that. I don't cross the church-state line between sales and editorial.

I've been "trashing" crappy products for over 12 years with TMC with no fear of retribution from the vendor. My boss Rich Tehrani told me to call it like it is and I wouldn't have it any other way. If you regularly read my blog or the product reviews in our print magazines, you would know that I don't cowtow to vendors.

I know you do read my blog regularly so I'm honestly not sure why you would even make such an accusation - except of course for "money". Obviously, you are an investor with GIPS and don't care to see a well-known and respected VoIP blog say 'anything' bad about your GIPS stock. Even your webpage says, "Global IP Sound (Investor)" under the "Technology Companies of Interest" heading.

So as an investor I should be questioning YOUR objectivity, you shouldn't be questioning mine. I tried to take the high-road in my comments here and not bad mouth anyone, but enough is enough. I could careless about your or anyone else's stock portfolio. I'm going to cover both good and bad news for all VoIP companies and let the chips fall where they may. It's what journalists do.

Those that think I should remove all these comments let me know. Those in favor of keeping this thread post a comment as well.

Nils :
January 18, 2006 11:38 AM

Jon Alexander, it is obvious that you are a very sensitive person. I agree that Rick's comments are a little over the top, but I'm surprised that you are so pro censorship. I'm not sure what country you're from, but you're attitude is reflective of one who is very insecure and opposed to letting people speak their mind. The fact that you want this discussion to be shut down because people have a difference in opinion is quite frightening.

It is apparent you like to live in a world of confirmation, not confrontation. Ironically this is the only link/article that has created any kind of reactions. Typically there are no comments to any of the articles in this blog so maybe Tom finds it refreshing that people are actually reacting to what he is writing...

jf :
January 18, 2006 11:51 AM

Frankly, I think this whole thing is getting out of hand. I do not think anyone would have an issue with Spirit and GIPS going back and forth with the merits of thier prodcuts, however the personal attacks contained in this post are childish.

I am sure Tom welcomes an open dialog where people express thier opinions on products and companies discussed. However, this has degenerated into a something resembling what occurs in an elementary school.

I would argue that Tom keep this alive because it is entertaining and I am all for allowing people a voice when it comes to discussing issues in a civil and respectful manner. However if this is going to continue to be a personal attack on Tom, or Rich, or if the GIPS and Spirit backers just resort to name calling then I would argue that Tom should shut it down as it does not represent anything constructive.

Jon Alexander :
January 18, 2006 11:56 AM

Nope, not sensitive and not pro-censorship. I'm just anti-crap. This isn't even a discussion. Many of these comments are simply rantings and ravings of stock holders with an agenda. I'm all for an honest discussion. But attacking somebody personally is more than "a little over the top".

Also, if I wanted a financial discussion on a particular stock, I'd go to the Yahoo! stock message boards, not someone's blog's comments. These comments are so ridiculous they're more like graffiti on a well-known technology blog.

Tom Keating :
January 18, 2006 12:09 PM

I get no comments to my blog? You are absolutely correct Nils. Yup, you won't find 48 comments here, 51 comments here, or many comments here, here, here and many other blog posts with tons of comments. Why do I even bother defending myself? Hey, if you don't like my blog, don't read it and please don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Jerry :
January 18, 2006 12:22 PM

I've been following this thread since the beginning and just trolling and not saying anything. Definitely a heated discussion.

I don't see why these GIPS stock investors got all in a "huff" in the first place. I also think Spririt DSP was a bit out of line for getting "baited" by the GIPS stock investors by responding to their attacks with some attacks of their own. They should have just left it alone and let the GIPS investors look like the cry babies that they were.

I agree with Jon and JF and think that Tom has taken the high road here and attacks on him were completely unwarranted. Tom's blog post was mostly a brief mention about GIPS and the Spirit DSP interview and the vast majority of it was about Microsoft Live Messenger. This wasn't an in-depth analysis article on GIPS or Spirit DSP. Bloggers often do quick posts or quick thoughts or quick "FYIs". So attacking Tom for quoting an interview was definitely over the top.

Best line of this entire thread:
Tom : "Hey, if you don't like my blog, don't read it and please don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Well said, Tom! Gave me a good chuckle.

Rick :
January 18, 2006 1:28 PM

You're exactly right Tom. I let my emotions get the best of me. I'm working on that (apparently not too well). Sorry to everyone.

When Jesus comes, who cares. Are you saved? It's the question we need to address.

The rest of this is just stuff.

Hell is hot, but Jesus saves!

Tom Keating :
January 18, 2006 1:58 PM

I will let this end on Rick's peaceful note and close comments to this post.

Comments are closed for this entry

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